June, 1998

1st Place Outstanding Local Publication
American Numismatic Association 1995, 1996, and 1997

Meeting 7:30pm, Wednesday, June 3
Talk and trading 7:00-7:30pm
VFW, 1601 Weld Road, Elgin, IL
Not a member? Come and join us anyway!


June Meeting
May Minutes
Board Meeting
Auction Setup --Buyers
Auction Setup --Sellers
Auction Rules
Coin of the Month -- Liberty Standing Quarter
Auction Lot List
Member Ad

June Meeting

"What is so rare as a day in June?" The virgin greens are vibrant. The world is alive. And we are going to have our semi-annual member coin auction. Bring your enthusiasm (and a couple bucks) and be ready to seriously consider additions to your collections. Be ready, too, to sell those no-longer-wanted gems that are just holding your money. The advance lot list is in the back of the newsletter. There will be more. Remember all you members can bring any numismatic material to sell.

And as always, bring along some show and tell.

June Prizes

May Minutes

ECC Meeting 485
May 6, 1998
Opened:around 7:35
Closed:around 9:10

President Doug Nelson called the 485th meeting of the Elgin Coin Club to order around 7:35pm at the VFW.

Secretary's Report

The minutes were accepted as published.

We welcomed Roger's Wife, Barb, Al Cerny, and Charles Lindmam. Good to see you again Al. Maybe you and Charles will rejoin us officially again some day.

Treasurer's Report

Don gave us the numbers in the box and you accepted them.

Old Business

There was none.

New Business

Someone reported that Marty had a minor heart attack (how can a heart attack be minor?) but, though he couldn't make it to this meeting, he expectes to be at the next where he will honor his request for silver eagles (his ad is repeated in this Newsletter).

Roger reported that Bob Hackbarth, a former member (former president?) was sick.

Roger made a motion that we send Get Well cards to Bob and Marty. The motion passed. I will send the cards.

Jerry R said that for National Coin Week he dropped many Wheat Cents on the floor around the Mall assuming that kids would find them. Neat idea Jerry.


John and Nancy Wilson presented a delightful slide show of three dollar bills. John is a current ANA board member and Nancy a former ANA board member. Both are honorary members of the Elgin Coin Club.

I started to take notes but quickly realized that I could not do any justice to their talk with a blow by blow description. Instead, I just jotted down a couple things that interested me:

The Wilsons gave the club members each a copy of Let's Collect Paper Money by Neal Shafer and a wood token advertising the 107th ANA convention in Portland, Oregon, Aug 5-9. They also donated two Red Books to the club for raffle or door prizes. And they brought along a case of Collector Starter Sets that originally came from the Mint and came via the ANA and the Central States Numismatic Society. Thanks John and Nancy.

Show and Tell

Mike C showed several older coins he had received in change over the previous month.

Jerry R mentioned that he often offers a waitress a half dollar or a dollar bill for a tip and the waitress almost always takes the half dollar. A problem in perception? Come on Jerry, give her the other half too the next time.

I showed Military Payment Certificates (MPC) of three different issues. I had just acquired set of Series 451 from Sonny Henry's Auction. This series was used between May 27, 1958 and May 26, 1961. I used the other two series while I was in Viet Nam: Series 641 was valid between May 31, 1965 and Oct 21, 1968. Series 661 only lasted nine months between Oct 21, 1968 and Aug 11, 1969. The notes were used to hold black marketeering to a minimum.

Jim Davis showed an ad for coins and currency he had extracted from the Chicago Tribune. You could buy a "wonderfully" VF-BU set of Franklin halves for only $275. Or there were 12 Morgan dollars for $269 and a set of 20th century dollars for $100.

April Prize Winners
Membership: Jerry R
YN: Adam R, Shane R
Raffle winners: Mike C (2 times), Al C (2 times)
Door: Mike C, Jim D, Mike M, Rich E, David J

We sold raffle tickets during a break before the program. At the end of the meeting drew for membership and raffle prizes. The winners listed in the box.

Finally after we sold as many extra tickets as we could, we had the Super Raffle. The winners were

Doug closed the meeting around 9:10.

Submitted by Mike Metras

Board Meeting

Don Cerny, Doug Nelson, and I got together at Don's May 20 in the evening for a board meeting. I must say we talked a lot about coins but there was little to say about the club this month. Things must be going well. There were a couple things though.

We looked back over the notes and couldn't determine for sure whether Jim Clevenger had accepted being our show chainman for this year. I believe he has. Jim was not there to say one way or the other. But Jim, if you are not the person, tell us who is. We need to get things rolling on this.

We decided to continue with tradition and not have a raffle in conjunction with the member coin auction.

Auction Setup -- Buyers

All buyers, stop at the table and pick up a bid number.

After the auction, come up and promptly pay for the coins you have bought. Please do this quickly so we can get the money to the sellers. Thanks.

Auction Setup -- Sellers

  1. If you made a list for me to publish, come to the auction table and pick up the now-numbered list and labels for the lot numbers. (You can use the published lot numbers to pre-number any published lots.)

  2. If you have coins to sell that have not been published, fill out the form included with the last Newsletter (or something like it) and bring it to the auction table where we will give you lot numbers and labels. All coins must be listed and have lot numbers.

  3. Write the lot numbers on the labels that we gave you and paste the labels on each lot.

  4. Bring the coins back to the auction table where we can lay them out for viewing. If you are not comfortable leaving them at the auction table, you can keep them with you until the actual sale.

  5. Give the lot list to someone at the auction table. We will use that lot list to record the prices you get for your coins.

  6. After the coins are paid for, we'll call you to come up and receive your money for your coins. Please give us the time to collect the money first so we can make this go smoothly. We'll do this as smoothly as possible.

Auction Rules

Rules, rules, rules--someone always has to make rules. See the November, 1997 newsletter for a list of rules that govern the Elgin Coin Club Member coin auctions.

Coin of the Month
Liberty Standing Quarter

Click here to enlarge obverse. (Source Heritage Numismatic Auctions, March 1998)

Click here to enlarge reverse. (Source Heritage Numismatic Auctions, March 1998)

In late December, 1916, Philadelphia began minting the third new design of the year, Herman Atkins MacNeil's Liberty Standing Quarter. The new dime and half dollar had arrived earlier in the year.

Ms Liberty stood between two low walls, right foot forward, looking to her right, She held a shield in her left arm and an olive branch in her right. Although her flowing garments covered most of her body, they missed her right breast. The date, on the bottom was the highest metal on the obverse and wore out first until it was set much lower in 1925.

A mighty eagle flew left to right across the reverse away from 7 stars and toward 6.

Click here to enlarge 1916. (Source Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of Coins) Several technical flaws plagued the 1916 version. The mint made several changes before minting the first 1917 versions. Those changes make it easy to tell the 1916 Philadelphia version from the 1917 version even with the date entirely worn off: the olive leaves on the 1916 are broad and close together, 1917's are narrow and farther apart; the gown above the 19 is different; the toes are different; in 1917 the star next to the "M" is closer to the line; all the obverse stars are in higher relief in 1917.

But a much greater change was coming in mid-1917. A public outcry organized by a leading, vocal prude of the day, Anthony Comstock, lead to Ms Liberty's breast being covered with chain mail (How is that for anachronism?). In addition, three stars were moved below the eagle and several minor changes were made to create this Type II version.

Click here to enlarge obverse. (Source Heritage Numismatic Auctions, March 1998)

Click here to enlarge reverse. (Source Heritage Numismatic Auctions, March 1998)

The condemned Type I version struck up fairly well, producing quite acceptable full strike coins. The Type II version was a failure. Only few had full head strikes where you could see the hair and ear and leaves above the ear. And the dates were weaker than the originals--all this mess thanks to Mint Engraver Charles Barber's parting messy work.

The last Standing Liberty quarters were made in 1930, just 15 years after the first ones. It was put out of existence in 1932 by the circulating quarter commemorating the 200th anniversary of Washington's birthday.

For you who like the numbers, just under 227 million Standing Liberty quarters were minted during its 15 years. We now mint three times that number of quarters each year at a single mint. 12.3 million were Type I and 214.5 million were Type II. 141.1 million were pre-1925 and the remaining 73.3 post-1925. But as we know, it is a lot easier to get the post-1925 version due to the date.

The lowest mintage was 1916 with just 52,000 and the highest, by far, was 1920 with 27,860,000. The second and third lowest are 1927S with 396,000 and 1927D with 976,000.

If you collect overdates, the 1918/17 is the most expensive Standing Liberty at $20,000 in MS63 according to the Red Book. The 1916 follows at $6,000 in the same grade, followed closely by the 1927S at $5,500.

For us working types who have to eat and put a roof over our heads, pre-1925 examples in fine are going to cost at least $15 to $20 each. After 1927, you'll get VF and a little better for the same price.

Full headed examples are hard to find for all dates and mints except, maybe, the 1917 Type I. All full heads demand a substantial premium over the book price.

It was a pretty coin, right in the class with Weinman's Winged Liberty dime and Walking Liberty half. It's too bad Washington had a birthday to commemorate. The Standing Liberty quarter deserved to be made several more years.